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Question(s) for people smarter than me.

Just a few questions for all of the learned readers and writers of The Cannon.

Just finished reading Andy Newman's post, "2012 NHL Trade Deadline: Rick Nash's Trade Value" and one line jumped out at me: "This isn't a Jeff Carter situation, where the team wants to cut their losses and get some value while they can."

Why are the Jackets looking to dump Carter? Is it because of his performance this season? He has been injured a bit. Maybe a full season would make a difference.

Is it because he didn't gel with Nash? Move him to another line.

Is it because he is pushing to leave? Both Carter and his agent deny he wants out of Columbus. (I know--players and agents lie all of the time)

Is it because the Jackets are hoping to get something better by trading Carter? I think Carter is (and can be) very good--for us or anyone else.

I realize these answers of mine are probably oversimplification, and I may have missed the reasons discussed elsewhere (apologies) but I am curious why it seems like Carter HAS to go.

Bottom line: The talk around is that the Jackets are looking to clean house and get players that they can build around. Isn't Jeff Carter just like the type of player the CBJ should be building around?



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I hesitate to answer, as I certainly don’t consider myself “smarter” than anyone. But I do think that I may have come across a few pieces of information that you have missed.

The trade rumors aren’t performance based, when healthy, especially since his latest return, Carter has been very good. His lack of chemistry with Nash has been somewhat resolved, they seem to do better on seperate lines.

The deadline rumormill is full of smoke and mirrors, but the general consensus is that Carter is unhappy. While he may not have formally requested a trade, the scuttlebut is that he is disgruntled. While it is pretty obvious that he never wanted to leave Philly, the word is that he is still upset about it. This perceived “attitude problem” has apparently hurt his trade value around the league, and the Jackets are unlikely to get back the same price that they paid.

Rumors are just rumors, although with this many rumors, all aluding to the same thing, it’s hard to ignore. Where there is smoke, especially this much smoke…there is fire.

We’ll all have to wait and see what happens over the next 11 days. If anything. Howson may just move pending UFA’s, like Pahlsson, and wait til the offseason to gut the roster and rebuild. Or we could see a complete overhaul, and a drastically different team taking the ice on the 28th against the Wings.

by Josh Owen on Feb 16, 2012 7:12 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks for your insight.

I would hope that Carter is over the whole “Philly betrayal” especially since the anger or pouting should not be directed at Columbus, but at his previous employers. I also would hope that Carter would be more professional than that but…

It’s truly a shame if Carter is forcing his way out of town (Adam Foote says, “hello”) as the Jackets really REALLY need a talent like his.

Sad. A sad, sad season again. I truly hope that whatever direction this franchise decides to take that it is the right one for the sake of the (dwindling) fan base…

Just once I'd like someone to call me "Sir," without adding, "You're making a scene."

by YankeeCarp on Feb 16, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Good luck

Any team trying desperately to unload a player will generally not get equal value back. In Carter’s case, that contract of his makes most GMs shudder. Acquiring a superstar with a long term contract is very risky business.

Good luck trying to get what was spent to acquire Carter.

by Marvellous on Feb 17, 2012 9:37 AM EST reply actions  

I would argue with Marvellous point above. The length of Carter’s contract is an issue for sure, but the low cap hit completely overwhelms the negative attitudes towards his contract.

In today’s NHL, it’s all about salary versus production, and in those terms Carter is more appealing than Nash (not saying he’s better).

Question:

What do Columbus fans feel is an adequate return for Carter? D you guys expect to get equal value of what you gave up for him, or more, or less?

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Feb 17, 2012 12:05 PM EST reply actions  

I really dont think anyone except Howson knows what we could get for Carter. I still think he is valuable. Luckily he hasnt come out and asked for a trade or it would be a different situation.
To answer your question, I expect a little less than what we gave up. Maybe Howson can get a young player that has the chance to develop into something good.

by cbjfan14 on Feb 17, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know what we can expect to get back, but unless we’re getting equal value I don’t think we should make a trade. Carter is locked up with a low cap number. He’s usually a 30 goal scorer. You don’t sell low on those guys.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Feb 21, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

No need to apologize for posting this question. In my view the smartest people often ask the most obvious questions that others just don’t think to ask, and this is a very good one. Why should we trade Carter when it’s assumed that the return would not equal his value? Especially if we will move Nash and hopefully get more back than what he is actually worth. I can honestly think of only two reasons why Howson would even consider this.

First, he is indeed going “nuclear” as has been suggested by the mere fact that Nash is on the block. If this is the case the re-building strategy may simply be to trade away our biggest assets, so that we can get as much as possible in return and completely start over with young talent and prospects. Since Carter’s NTC kicks in next year (at least I think that’s the case), it is easier for Howson to move him now, rather than later. To me this thinking is fine, although it’s a shame that we may not get as much as we traded away in the first place to acquire him. I also hope that the people yelling to trade Nash and Carter realize that it could take years for the new team to develop.

The other reason is that Carter has a perceived attitude problem, which has strongly been suggested by many, especially Mr. Portzline in the Dispatch. As this is completely built on whispers and (possible) sources that would not publicly say so, I think it sounds somewhat suspect. Firstly, Carter was successful for many years in Philadelphia without any major concerns, other than the insinuation that he may have partied too hard. Secondly, he and his agent completely deny having asked for Carter to be moved and Portzline has actually confirmed this to be true.

Carter’s on ice performance has been acceptable, considering that he has been injured for much of the season, and in the last few games he has arguably been our best forward. He leads all CBJ players in goals per game percentage and is third in points per game percentage. In other words, he is pretty much doing what he was expected to do when he was traded. Sure his year has not been his greatest, but in comparison with Nash I would argue that Carter has been the better player. He furthermore has a 50.8 faceoff percentage and has been a solid if not spectacular two-way center, just like he was in Philadelphia.

With this in mind, and the fact that his salary is relatively cheap for what he brings, I find it strange that Howson would trade him as well as Rick Nash. If he feels there is no other way to re-build the team from the ground up, than I will accept his thinking. But why not keep him around, since we are going to get so much for Nash, and the UFAs plus salary dumps anyway? Why indeed?

by Ville A on Feb 17, 2012 5:30 PM EST reply actions  

I agree with everything here. I can see the appeal in trading Nash, and his contract is rather large. With Carter, we would be selling low on a valuable asset. I think his future value to this team is easily more than his trade value. Even if we do trade Nash, Carter will still be a very good player a few years down the line when the new talent is ready.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Feb 21, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s all about attitude.

I’ve stated elsewhere that I believe Carter has the talent to be a top 15-20 player in the NHL, if he wanted.

The problem is, he’s largely a product of his environment. He doesn’t elevate those around him. The rumors of his continued pouting regarding the trade from Philadelphia only amplify this.

Carter could have been great if the team was in the position they thought they were in – fighting for a playoff spot. But Carter’s not going to lead that charge. Would he thrive in New York or LA? I think so. Again, it’s all about environment.

When you’re more concerned about bringing up young players through the system this year and beyond like Johansen, Atkinson, Calvert, Kubalik… you want them around players like Prospal, which is exactly why he got re-signed.

If the Jackets are going full-blown rebuild, it doesn’t make sense to pay Carter what he’s making for 2nd line production and a poor attitude.

Editor for The Cannon -- A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
Follow me on Twitter - @andynewman

by Andy Newman on Feb 17, 2012 11:22 PM EST reply actions  

I buy what you are saying, if it is indeed true that there is an attitude problem with Carter. But I have yet heard one player or coach say that he does. Maybe it’s true, but I will not assume that a rumor about a person’s attitude is accurate until a reporter can say that he has credible sources (more than one) saying that this is the case. I understand that noone will actually come out and say that, but there are other ways for this to be disclosed, and so far I have seen or heard little that indicates that this is the case.

There just seem to be so many assumed truths out there right now, like Carter doesn’t want to be here and Nash does want to be here, but neither statement can be confirmed. I am certainly hoping that the decisions made by managment in regards to Carter and Nash are based on much more than this.

by Ville A on Feb 17, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if those rumors are just that, rumors, the fact remains that unless he has All-Star caliber linemates dishing him the puck, he’s just not going to elevate the play of those around him.

I think it’s no coincidence he’s been paired up with Prospal the majority of the time.

The team either needs players that are going to leave it all out on the ice or that can lead by example and make those around him better. Carter just misses the boat on both of those.

Editor for The Cannon -- A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
Follow me on Twitter - @andynewman

by Andy Newman on Feb 20, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem is, he’s largely a product of his environment. He doesn’t elevate those around him

I don’t think so. I mean, is it a coincidence that Richards has two great season with Carter on his wing? That Giroux breaks out and then gets on the all-star radar last season with Carter on his wing? I don’t think so.

I think Carter looks lazy because he’s such a good skater but doesn’t always want to go at 100% speed (and really, most players shouldn’t because then you can’t make those quick turns).

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Feb 25, 2012 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting reads. Thanks for your input and insights!

Just once I'd like someone to call me "Sir," without adding, "You're making a scene."

by YankeeCarp on Feb 18, 2012 4:10 PM EST reply actions  

Being a fan of the rangers I have seen a ton of Carter in Philly. His reputation is fine on the ice but he has been considered an off ice cancer.

He is said to have a drinking problem but many players that play in Philly tend to drink to heavily. Also he had that scandal about banging hartnells wife then the flyers went on a huge losing streak as hartnell got divorced.( hartnell the chode he is, is the heart and soul of the flyers team)

There is baggage with Carter. He has been said to be unhappy maybe the nightlife in Columbus doesn’t live up to Philly. Or that he went from a contending team to this years last place team has him upset.

I think moving him can be done but not for a good return. Nash’s contract will hinder teams also.

by Pballer505 on Feb 20, 2012 9:40 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I think it’s unreasonable to expect a player to be anything but unhappy when their team sucks.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Feb 21, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I have probably a much dumber question.

Admittedly I have not watch a whole bunch of CBJ games being a Ranger fan and living oversees. I always thought Rick Nash was a LW but a lot of places (even the CBJ official website) have him listed as a RW, obviously his off-wing.

I assume he can play both side but was there one side he has played more? Which side is he more effective at?

Thanks

Aucune clause de Mouvement

by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 4:15 PM EST reply actions  

He came up in the league as a LW, but switched to the right side a couple years ago to facilitate playing opposite of Kristian Huselius. He bounced back to the left in brief stints, but has mostly stayed as a RW since players like Prospal and Umberger are better on the left.

He’s stated that he doesn’t mind playing either position, although he’s more comfortable on the left side.

If I remember correctly, he only played LW in the Olympics.

Editor for The Cannon -- A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
Follow me on Twitter - @andynewman

by Andy Newman on Feb 23, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

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