Is DD the new RJ?
You couldn't pick a more different set of roads to the NHL than the ones taken by R.J. Umberger and Derek Dorsett.
One was a highly touted NCAA prospect and product of the US National Team program who was taken as a first round draft pick.
The other scrapped his way to a spot on a Memorial Cup contender, but wouldn't find himself called at the NHL draft until almost the final pick of the 7th round.
While both spent a season in the AHL, one was a leader who took his team all the way to the Calder Cup, while the other was a role player on a good team that would be knocked out of the playoffs in a hard fought conference final series.
One was looked two for a "hard fought" goal and "gutsy" responsibilities at the front of the net. The other was seen primarily as an agitator and scrapper for whom "hard fought" was a quite literal statement almost every game.
Both, however, were seen as good checking line players, both were seen as excellent PKers, and each brought a high degree of "blue collar" effort. Both became fan favorites quickly in their debut cities, and both have been seen as players with strong leadership abilities.
In a year where their team has struggled all season, even Umberger's Ironman streak was broken, and his scoring is nowhere near his normal levels. Even in his worst full NHL season Umberger brought in 16 goals - he's currently on pace for 12. The player who got a new deal to stay in Columbus as the heart of the team still seems to be bringing his lunchpail most games, but he doesn't seem to be quite himself, and he hasn't been able to find the extra bursts of effort at the crucial moments that might push the club temporarily out of the valleys.
Dorsett, on the other hand, is well into a career season, having already doubled his NHL record in goals with eight, and just four points away from tying his career high in points. He has shown a surprising flair for shorthanded and "clutch" scoring at times this season, and visibly improving his game. Named one of the team's alternate captains once again by head coach Todd Richards (an honor removed by former coach Scott Arniel), Dorsett has filled the void that Umberger's struggles left in providing a new "heart' player for both fans and teammates alike to watch on the ice and follow by example.
With the Blue Jackets taking a long look at changes to this roster, it's difficult to imagine them moving Umberger right after signing a new contract, but Dorsett is a restricted free agent this summer and making a case for a decent raise. One could easily see Dorsett being offered to a potential playoff contender looking for a "spark" player to slot into their bottom six, or made part of a potential package deal.
Should this come to pass, I think it would be a mistake on the level of allowing Ray Whitney to leave town.
There's no question Dorsett is one of the few players showing the accountability and need to win that the locker room badly needs. His passion is an inspiring thing to watch - and subtracting it while the team continues to struggle to form an identity seems like a recipe for disaster. Even more, Dorsett has been one of the team's top penalty killers and one of the only forwards in the "bottom six" with a positive scoring chance ratio at even strength. He may never be a 20 goal scorer, but Dorsett could well be breaking out into a versatile and defensively responsible 20+ point player, providing badly needed depth without requiring the team to break the bank on a free agent.
Most of all, he's been willing to step up and try to put the team on his shoulders - and has clearly been learning to do so without using his fists. That's an impressive step of personal growth. Dorsett is also one of the few players to live in Columbus year round. He clearly loves the city, and we've had the privilege of watching him become a better, smarter player.
DD may not be the new RJ. But he has filled many of the roles that made Umberger a fan favorite on and off the ice. We ought to recognize the results, and not allow exactly the kind of player this team needs to slip away.
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The Secret's Out ;)
In a season devoid of much – if any – positive news, Dorse certainly has been a bright spot. I also have been impressed with his development from a guy stuck in a “Boll vs. Dorsett” debate to a more fully formed player. I also think part of what makes this story special this year is that he has given credit to people like Vinny Prospal for helping build his game. As we all know and love Vinny for his intangibles, I think its important to recognize this spark as part of #DD’s explosive growth this year.
As always, another great piece from the Cannon and Matt.
AlisonL
heartofajacket.blogspot.com
...CBJ Hockey from a pure fan perspective...
#DD - #becausehesawesome
I have to admit...
I was one of those people in the Boll vs. Dorse debate. I even wrote a piece in the off-season saying Boll should stay and Dorse should go. I am happy to admit when I’m wrong (or, in this case, perhaps short sighted), and Dorse has definitely had a solid season given what I would have expected from him. I still worry about his penalty minutes, but his PK work this year has been better than any other year in the past, and his penchant for scoring timely goals is a big boost.
Writer for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets blog
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"I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, which is one reason [a] good [woman] so far [has] been very sorry on occasion to have married me." --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
DD can score
did he almost score 30 goals his last year in Juniors before he broke his hand?
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
No, i do not think he is the new Umby.
I, like Dan, was on the Boll over Dorsett boat. Even though i would now take Dorsett over Boll, i would still like to get rid of both. Maybe if he shows me more than just one good stretch of offense, that may change, but i dont see it happening. He and Mackenzie are basically the same player.
Having said that, i would be willing to bet anything comes back next year. Hopefully its not many years for a low price.
dorsete fights, mckenzie dosnt
we lose boll and dorsete whos gonna defend the team? gotta keep dorestte and let him keep the “A”. i garentee with the letter he will not make us overpay like most players do, even though he wouldnt comman much anyways. i dont think we should keep boll though
I think pure fighters are irrelevant and unnecessary. Teams do not need people to “defend them” if they’ve got enough talented grit players. Boll has shown very little to convince me he’s anything more than a useless goon. At least Dorsett has shown more offensive prowess than Boll and more energy, but he’s nothing more than a 4th line player on a successful team.
Does a hockey team need “tough” players? Absolutely – but they had better be able to do something other than use their fists (score goals, be a playmaker, kill penalties, whatever).
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Which is why I said to get rid of them both. We can add a player who has more size and skill, but can still fight if needed. A player like Sestito, but with a better head on their shoulders.
Like zeke said, pure fighters are gone. King, parros, Shelley, etc are vanishing quickly. On a good team, Dorsett is a fourth liner, if that.
While Dorsett may fight and Mackenzie doesn’t, I still believe Mackenzie has more offensive skill and he it’s debatable if he’s a better penalty killer. I think he is to be honest.
by cbjfan14 on Jan 26, 2012 3:04 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
You have to have a third line of defensive forwards to focus on shutting down the other team’s players and less on creating offense… that is what Dorsett has become. That’s hard to come by, because it takes 100% dedication and selflessness…
by DBrowne on Jan 26, 2012 7:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No offense...
But if I could have a 4th line of three DMacs or DDs, I’d take it in an instant. That’s what energy players are for.
by AKA Goldfish on Jan 26, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I guess thats why your a Jackets fan and not a Blackhawks fan. If we had 3 DD/Mackenzie’s we wouldnt be making the playoffs unless the rest our team was really good. Good teams dont have that many players like that. If we had 3 DD/ Mackenzies that could consistently put the puck in the net, that would be a different story. Maybe Calvert can be that player.
…uhhh the Blackhawks ice players far worse than Dorsett. Carcillo is a complete assclown, he’s a disgrace to the game. He and Jamal Mayers are total goons, just downright dirty players.
Dorsett is responsible defensively, he has shown a little bit of a scoring touch, he’s willing to fight no-talent, bush-league asshats like Carcillo, Jordin Tootoo, etc. etc.
…I’d also like to point out that Dorsett is only a -3 this year, and has the highest shooting percentage on the team among the players who have played the majority of the season. He’s grown into much more than a random checking forward or a goon.
…as for the comparison to D Mac, they are completely different style players.
Boll and Dorse have more in common, although Dorsett is better rounded, he’s valuable on the PK, he’s more defensively sound, and has more of a scoring touch than Boller. The only thing Boll really brings to the table is size, he’s not the biggest guy, but he’s bigger than Dorse and hes willing to square off with the bigger goons around the league, the heavyweights like McGrattan and company who are out of Dorse’s weight class.
Another aspect of Boll’s game is the penalties he draws. Boll is very vocal to the opposing bench, and finishes hard checks and draws retaliation from the other teams. I’m not sure how the stats play out, but I would venture that Boll draws more penalties than he takes, whereas Dorsett is often the opposite, and needs to work on his discipline.
Still, Dorsett is a valuable player, and a big part of this team.
I dont know how one can even argue Dorsett and Boll are more common than Dorsett/ Mackenzie.
Dorsett: 6’0 190—8 goals, 13 points, -3
D Mac: 5’11, 180-5 goals, 10 points, +4
Not only do they average similar numbers, but they both fly out there, are willing to hit everything that moves, and they both are very good at killing penalties. They both are good at drawing penalties and good at providing energy for the rest of the team.
The only difference is Dorsett fights, Mackenzie doesnt. I actually think Dorsetts game would be much better if he didnt fight as often. He tends not to be as good as Boll at the timing of his fights, but he is better as getting better players to fight and sit in the box for 5.
Boll doesnt kill penalties, and doesnt produce any offense.
Im curious, who do you keep and get rid of between DD, D mac, Boll if you GM? Thats three of bottom six. Hopefully Umby is in bottom six, maybe Vermette. We got Yakupov (or whoever we draft who will most likely make the team), Atkinson, Calvert, Kubalik who should all be about ready by next year, where do they go with all of those players listed above?
Just curious, as i think Howson has a big decision to make. Dorsett seems important to the locker room, but I like what Mackenzie brings on the ice better. Doesnt take stupid penalties, draws more penalites, and i think hes a better Pker. If we lose Boll, we have no one in the bottom six who can fight a semi large player, which is dangerous when we will have so many small youngsters next year.
Im honestly not sure what i would do if i were GM, its a tough situation Howson is in
If it was up to me who we keep in the bottom six, I would be willing to trade everyone but Dorsett, Mackenzie and Letestu (who in my mind is really a bottom six player who can fill in higher up if needed). I would get rid of Boll, who adds very little to the team, other than his fights, and who has had a bad year statistically. I believe that Matt Wagner recently pointed out that he is the worst player on the team in scoring chances for/against, while playing few minutes against low quality opponents. His skating is suspect, he has poor puck control and doesn’t read plays very well. Why Portzline has a man crush on him is completely beyond me. Loosing his fighting ability will hurt, but there are many good teams who fight very little and still succeed (Redwings etc.), and if we sign a guy like Tim Gleason as Josh suggested, he can pick up the slack.
I also think that we should look at trading Umberger and Vermette who are way overpaid to be third liners. It may be painful to give them up, but we desperately need a good goalie and at least one true top pair defensemen so we have to give up something. If Carter is traded, as recently hinted by ownership, we may be able to keep one of them. In that case I would prefer to keep Vermette, who is more versatile and a natural center, which we will need with Carter and Pahlsson both gone.
As far as filling in the remaining spots in the bottom six, I am hoping that at least two of them can be young Springfield players like Kubalik (maybe top six), Calvert or Mayorov. Atkinson can also fill a role in the bottom six, but I’m hoping that he can turn into a productive top six guy at some point. In addition we may need another veteran presence so we don’t put too much pressure on the young guys, like Arniel did early this season. Hopefully this will be a good mix of players that can handle both defensive responsibilities, like PK duties, while also providing the bottom six scoring we so sorely lack now.
So basically you want our bottom six to average 6 feet tall? Im not so sure that is the best plan.
You point to Detroit as ones that do not have a many that fight, but they have size. Bertuzzi will drop them with anybody. The rest of their forwards can take care of themselves (not by fighting). Datsyuk isnt going to be taken advantage of. He has a huge frame, and no one can take advantage of him.
Almost every other team have guys that can fight with size.
Rangers have Rupp, Prust.
Hawks have Carcillo, Scott
Caps have Erskine, etc
Pens have Asham, etc.
Canucks have Weise (not much for ’Nucks)
Bruins have Thornton
I mean the list goes on and on. And these teams have size, which we need more of. Especially with Atkinson, Yakupov (hopefully), and Calvert who all lack size. Those guys WILL get taken advantage of with their lack of size. So right, assuming we pick Yakupov, its looking like (with your players you want back):
Yakupov-Height 5.10 — Weight 170
Atkinson-Height 5.08 — Weight 175
Calvert-Height 5.09 — Weight 188
Dorsett-Height 5.11 — Weight 178
Mackenzie-Height 5.11 — Weight 180
Letestu-Height 5.11 — Weight 195
Now if you can tell me another team that has that many tiny guys with no enforcers, i will be SHOCKED. Ive called Montreal the smurfs since getting rid of Koivu/ Kovalev a couple a years ago, and i dont even think they have this many small players. Not young guys, thats for sure.
One of the biggest things Howson/ Patrick said during the STH Q and A was that he wanted size. This is not size. These players cant handle big teams like the Wings, Sharks, Philly, etc.
Like i said, i honestly have no clue what i would do if i were Howson. Too many good young players. Maybe we should think about shopping Calvert for a bigger player. Not sure, hes in a really, really tough spot.
As for Gleason, IF we were to get Gleason, would you really want one of our top defensemen to be the one that has to fight and stick up for players? I dont
Although your tone may be slightly harsher than it needs to be (because I think we are largely in agreement), I think you have a very valid point about size. If we get rid of Pahlsson, Boll and RJ we might lose too much size.
Kubalik is big, but he is still young and growing into his frame. Maybe this is a good argument for keeping RJ instead of Vermette, but you can’t possible tell me that you are considering keeping Boll. We already know that Pahlsson will not get a new contract after this season.
This leaves us with the option of trading either Atkinson or Calvert, like you say, for some more size. I personally think that we should look at trading Calvert before we trade Atkinson, since Atkinson is a more natural top six guy and we already have some size in our top six. Like I also mentioned, I think we need one more veteran bottom six player, and that can certainly be a big guy.
I guess I was basing my bottom six mostly on skill and may have underestimated the importance of size, but I don’t think that size alone should be the determining factor. MacKenzie and Dorsett both play a physical game “above” their size and players like Datsyuk and Crosby are very physical although they are not big. There are also players like Carter who are big but don’t use their size in a very physical sense, so I don’t think that a simple chart with feet, inches and pounds are indicative of how a team plays. In that case we should have been much more successful when Hitch was in charge.
I also remember Howson’s comment about size being a major part of the team’s identity, although I had never before heard that mentioned and not since. Quite frankly, I would have loved for him to elaborate on that because size alone doesn’t create an identity, it’s how you play the game.
Anyway, I’m glad you pointed out the shortcomings of my scheme (I am not being facetious), but I am not getting your smurf comments and somewhat aggressive tone. Maybe I’m reading too much into it…
Ultimately we will need a great mix of skill and strength in our bottom six, and I still think that MacKenzie, Dorsett and Letestu can and should be the core players that we keep. I guess I was mainly focused on the skill factor, defensive skill included (since that has been largely absent), but I agree that we will also need to add some size. Where this leaves some of the young Springfield guys is a good question. Maybe we only bring one or possible two of them up next year, while the others stay in the AHL for some more seasoning which I know you are a big proponent of. Win-win situation – let’s hope so.
I apologize, i honestly wasnt trying to be aggressive or anything. I think i frustrated myself when i looked up all the sizes of what who we have, and who we have coming up, it sucks, we are such a small team.
The smurf thing was just what i personally have referred Montreal to because they are a small team. Gomez, Gionta, Plekanec, Cammalleri (used to) etc.
Im not implying that we bring back Boll, but i do with we could find a player with Boll’s size who can fight but with more skill like Mackenzie or Dorsett. Someone like Sestito, but with a better head on their shoulders.
As i see it, I wouldnt be surprised to see Boll and Mackenzie gone. As much as i would like to keep Mackenzie instead of Dorsett, i get the feeling that the organization wants his “bite” in the lineup. Not that Mackenzie doesn’t bring it, but Dorsett….does it differently. Its hard to explain, but Dorsett does it more by chirping and getting under people skin, as Mackenzie does it by persistent pressure and an offensive bite.
Mackenzie however, has better puck control and would be better on a defensive line with more offense. Maybe he, Letestu, and Umby can hook up for a sweet third line someday.
Hopefully this sure’s up some of my comments above.
No problem, I was probably reading too much between the lines. Anyway, I agree that I somewhat ignored the size issue, and you are right about us lacking that in the bottom six, if we get rid of Boll and Pahlsson. However, if we keep Mackenzie, Dorsett and Letestu and assume that RJ is also in the bottom six (I know I prefer to trade him, but if we need the size, let’s say we keep him), and add one more big veteran player (maybe with fighting skill like you suggest), than that’s a pretty physical line up. We could then add a guy like Mayorov or even Calvert and probably be just fine size wise. The question is if this type of bottom six has enough offensive skill, and what we do with the young guys like Kubalik and Atkinson?
I guess it’s positive that we are even discussing the possibility of having too many young guys coming up, but how they fit in is just as important as their skill levels. Maybe your comment about lack of size is an issue that needs to be addressed, but if we have skilled guys in the system, they can always be traded for other assets. Kubalik and Johansen are both big guys (and seem to already be holding their own) while Atkinson and Calvert are, shall we say, slightly smaller. Hopefully Howson and the next coach can figure out the mix that is just right.
One more comment regarding the Mackenzie vs. Dorsett debate. The reason to keep MacKenzie is that he is a center, and with Pahlsson, Carter and possibly Brassard/Vermette leaving, we need him to fill that center position as either a third line center (which I think is right for him) or staying at the fourth line center slot. In other words I don’t think it’s really Dorsett vs. MacKenzie since one is a winger, the other a center. Also, Howson has said that one of his biggest mistakes was to let Malholtra and Pecca leave in the same year, and it took him two years to catch up on the center position. Therefore, Mackenzie should stay.
You may think Carcillo is “a complete assclown”, but he has managed to work his way on a team that went to finals of Stanley Cup finals and have a secure spot, now he has managed to sign with the Hawks and have a secure spot when healthy.
From the tweets he gets from players around the league, he is well respected, so i can only assume he is great in the locker room.
Similar to Tootoo. I hate the guy too, but he gets the job done and he is great in the room.
And btw, i said good teams “dont have that many players like that”, not that they dont have one of them. And as i say all this, I do say that good teams dont have that many of them, we are not a good team right now. I doubt we will next year to be honest. So we will probably hold on to these players a bit longer until we shore up the top core.
Being on a good team, even a championship team, doesn’t make each individual player good. Carcillo is definitely not a contributer to the Flyers or the ‘Hawks success. He is a joke, a dirty player who deliberately tries to hurt people when he’s on the ice.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/757077-nhl-free-agency-dan-carcillo-moves-to-blackhawks-why
…and a few videos of his “play”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGQKhkAEENc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVOpVZkT94M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyAzDq4v5oI&feature=related
Carcillo is garbage.
I am well aware of what Carcillo has done. While you are right that “being on a good team, even a championship team, doesn’t make each individual player good” (see Brett Lebda), the point that he has been able to sign, and re sign with top NHL teams with amazing depth and have a consistent spot in the NHL does make him a good part of the team. I believe he even logged some PP time for the Hawks. While he may not have the most talent, he obviously brings good stuff to teams when hes not suspended, and he seems amazing in the room. He is well liked among his teammates.
True, and I guess I’m more mad at the NHL for allowing the “tough guy” or “enforcer” role to exist. As long as goons are allowed in the league, teams will find a spot for guys like Carcillo.
I have no problem with fighting in hockey, I don’t even have much of a problem with enforcers. But Carcillo takes the role a step further with blatant dirty hits, classless play with the intent to injure his opponents. He doesn’t belong on the ice in an NHL game, he’s an asshat. Case in point, his comments about ending Mike Komisareks season, I believe it was “I just wish he had a chance to come out and do something about it.” Or something along those lines. If you want to fight. Fine with me. If you want to talk trash, bully, and intimidate opponents, also fine with me. But when you resort to taking cheap shots, with the intent to injure, guys like that don’t belong in the league.
Which brings me to a whole other rant, the suspension system doesn’t work. It cures the symptom, not the problem. A guy like Carcillo, if he gets suspended, the ‘Hawks really don’t give a shit. As long as they have their core players, what do they care? He’s gonna come back and play the exact same way. If the league is really serious about player safety, it will figure out away to hand out more than a slap on the wrist.
This goes back to my point on Byers. I couldnt of cared less what Byers got. Give him the season. He is a nobody in the NHL, and he is easily replaceable.
I suggest that the NHL forces teams to play a man down for half of what the suspension is if the suspension is over 3 games. Something along those lines. This hurts the entire team, and players will be less likely to make the hit. Teams will also be less likely to want to sign dirty cheap shot artists.
I actually like this idea much better than bringing the redline offside rule back, and the Shanabans have not really worked. It has to hurt the whole team not just the replaceable goon. One thing is for sure, the all too common concussions have to stop, and if that means we will have less goons and therefore less fights in hockey – so be it.
Playing a man down actually does sound pretty fair….it’s like an extended game misconduct. It would be the most practical way to make these types of players disappear.
The thing is, a lot of these guys aren’t even the stereotypical enforcers. In my mind, a lot of them are exactly like Byers, like you said. They are AHL-caliber guys playing dirty in the NHL. Byers got a 3 game suspension…which did very little, practically no damage to the Jackets. What if the guy he took out had been Couture or Marleau instead of Desjardins? Jakcets lose an AHL guy for 3 games, and the Sharks lose a key piece of their team. Is that fair?
Physicality is part of the game, and there is hardly anything, short of goals, that gets fans out of their seats like a good check. Keeping the hits within the rulebook shouldn’t be that much to ask for.
I really like your idea, playing with a blank roster spot for the duration of the suspension. It will make teams think long and hard about the players they send on the ice…it should get rid of some of the worst offenders.
Well it is just like JFJ did when he hit Umberger. He got suspended for a few games, then the Ducks just sent him down. No big deal for them. I know this wasnt the Ducks goal or anything, but its almost like he gets called up, does the deed, and gets sent back down. Mission complete right.
SOmething needs to change to get these hits lower that affect the AHL level players that are in the NHL for a few games.























