You Clitsome, You Lose Some
by Dan J on Feb 19, 2011 4:23 PM EST
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Don’t lie. The teenager inside of you laughed at his last name when the Jackets drafted him. Your immature self continued to laugh every time Porty or any other Jackets pundit updated you on his progress.
Who’s laughing now?
I’ll tell you who is laughing now. Grant Clitsome and Scott Arniel.
Oh, and John Moore. And Matt Calvert, for that matter.
This Blue Jackets team is in the midst of a phenomenal transition, and Grant Clitsome is the best example of the movement. His offensive contributions have been a sight for our decade-sore eyes. While other teams have thrived with the contributions of Lidstroms, Gonchars, and Greens, the Nationwide natives have received their best blue-line numbers from Jaroslav Spacek.
Jaroslav Spacek.
Grant Clitsome’s limited time this year has shed new light on what a two-way defenseman can do for a team. They’ve also brought new lights into the locker room. Spotlights shining hard on some vets in the locker room. Some of whom have already cracked under the pressure.
Goodbye Mike Commodore, though we did love you so. You’re ginger curls, impressive corner battles and amiable personality made you the most loveable Jacket since Tyler Wright. Unfortunately for you, Mike, Ken Hitchcock is no longer in charge. You’re shutdown, physically intimidating brand of defense is not the way this young Jackets team wants to play anymore.
With young D-men like Kris Russell, Grant Clitsome, and the fresh face of John Moore, Scott Arniel is molding a defense much the same way he built his coaching staff… young, edgy, and free-wheeling.
The way we love John Michael’s interviews with Bob Boughner, we will love the gun slinging defense that the Jackets are moving towards.
Fear not, Jan Hejda and Rusty Klesla, you’re not going anywhere. The defensive corps still needs some solid, stay at home, dive in front of every shot hard-heads. Fedor Tyutin, you’ve been consistent, but you’re about to be free to move on. Anton Stralman, enjoy your millions even though you’ve barely earned a penny until recent weeks.
If this team is going to make the playoffs and continue to be a contender in the coming years, the back-end is going to have to help provide what the Blue Jackets have always lacked. Consistent scoring.
Just ask Mssrs. Mason and Garon if their lives would be easier not feeling as though they have to hold the opposing skaters to two goals or less. Teams have won with defense, but this new NHL is a goal scoring paradise. While a shutout is nice, there’s a reason we throw hats to the ice for three goals, and not thirty saves.
The rings on the fingers of Crosby, Malkin, and even the dreaded Patricks (Sharp and Kane) are positive proof… Scoring wins.
With Steve Mason returning to form, the defense can feel free to remove a bit of the crushing weight on its shoulders. Marc Methot is now free to do his best Forrest Gump on occasion. He can break the Hitchcock braces from his legs and wheel into the offensive zone to fire off a quick wrister.
Kris Russell can continue to surprise opponents with his quickness, agility, and superb stick-handling. Clitsome can send a breakout pass and follow straight up to his point and wait on a pass that he’ll turn into a cannon-blast through an R.J. Umberger screen. Upon his permanent promotion, John Moore can unload the force of first-round fury and ring the corner posts before twick-ing the twine.
Bottom line: If a young, fast defense can step up and provide an extra goal per game via a shot from the slot, or a supreme pass across the circles, this team will be going places. Hopefully a couple of places come April and May… not just a limited engagement in Detroit this time.
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I’m getting tired of Howson sitting idle while everyone else acquires defensemen. Where the hell are the trades?
Adam Foote still blows!
I think the D will be fine. John Moore has looked ggood when called upon, and Stralman is starting to show why he was kept around and given a raise.
Unfortunately, with Brassard’s injury, the immediate need to address via trade is to get another top 6 center to help put the points until Brass is back, and then into the playoffs.
Its not exactly easy to get a top six center and i dont find it worth gettting one as a rental to just try and make the playoffs. The center spot is definately vulnerable right now but i think we just need to stay cool and not overact in trying to fill the 2-3 week hole. But that may just be me.
I have seen Lyles is being shopped. That would be a good fit here i think. Not sure what they would want back but that would be a good pickup. Souray is also on waivers. Not a big fan of him, but he may help as well.
My whole point about the D was that moves need to be made… the right moves. If they can move Tyutin for a better option, I’m all for it. But I think the future is bright. The young guys in the rotation just need to be given a free rope
Which of those trades would you have liked Howson to make? Everybody traded was either no better than what we have or way over-valued.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
I would have gladly taken Shattenkirk from the Avs. Stralman scored a goal and now everyone thinks he’s proving his worth? He was hyped to be the next Lidstrom.
Adam Foote still blows!
by Heavysoviet on Feb 20, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
And not only did we miss out on him, but the Avs strengthened a divisional rival. The Blues got a steal with that trade.
Adam Foote still blows!
by Heavysoviet on Feb 20, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
I would have gladly taken Shattenkirk from the Avs.
And what would you have given up for him? Do we have Erik Johnson to give up along with another NHL player?
Stralman has nothing to do with this. And I don’t remember anyone ever saying he was supposed to be the next Lidstrom.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I think we could have offered Stralman and a draft pick, or something similar to get Shattenkirk. And it’s not just now that we’re missing out. Plenty of FA’s this summer we didn’t jump on.
As for the Lidstrom reference, Leafs fans thought they struck gold when they drafted him.
Adam Foote still blows!
by Heavysoviet on Feb 20, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Stralman, a first, and a second.
Also, leafs fans think a lot of things, that doesn’t mean sane people do.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, Blues owned in that trade. Stewart is good and Johnson is just underachieving bust. Sens also got a steal by getting Anderson. Avs made a couple of stupid trades IMO.
It was not going to be cheap to get Shattenkirk, too much for us anyway
I think you’re giving up on Johnson way too soon. He’s still just 22.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
This trade benefits St. Louis today. Maybe in the future, Colorado would be benefiting. They are making some really questionable trades. Fine by me, though. One less western team on our heels.
Adam Foote still blows!
by Heavysoviet on Feb 20, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Good stuff, promoting this to the main page.
Editor for The Cannon -- A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
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For what it’s worth, I’d far rather keep Tyutin than Klesla, but otherwise, great post!
I’m also thinking that a reliable scoring winger (if we’re really in on Ales Hemsky? YES PLEASE) could fix the top six until Brass comes back, especially if (as rumored) we might move Juice as part of a deal for defensive help.
Editor for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
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just curious, where are you hearing these rumors? I would be so down with Hemsky.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
I will add I would trade Voracek as part of a deal to acquire Hemsky, and I think that may be what it would take. We would have to add more of course, but both teams get what they want. We get a proven player still in his prime, and Edmonton gets a tremendous young talent, albeit one who has struggled to find his niche at the NHL level.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
I’d seriously consider that, actually.
Editor for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
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by Matt Wagner on Feb 20, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
I would do it, depending on what the other piece is.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
No way i would trade Voracek for an 27 year old injury stricken Hemsky. Voracek has much more of an upside. Once his hands catch up to his feet he will be a force. He also makes 4.1 million, not what the Jackets want.
27 is right in the middle of his prime. He’s played 70 games in every season except four out of his 8 year career (including this year). One of those seasons was his rookie year, and one he played 64 games. He won’t make 70 this year, but he’ll get to 60 pretty easily. So that makes 60 games in every year except two, one of which was his rookie year where he played 59.
If he’s going to score almost a point per game for 65-75 games every year, 4.1 million is well worth it.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Why would we trade a guy who hasnt even hit stride for a guy that is near the end of his prime. Plus correct me if im wrong but doesnt he have concussion problems.
The way i see it is, why would we trade a younger guy with more potential for a guy that has a bigger contract and we have missed part of his “prime”. Plus he has injury problems.
Im just wondering but how many times has anyone watched Hemsky other than against the Jackets?
Never really been overly impressed by him, reminds me of Huselius but a little more physical.
Too many injuries, concussions are a problem. Absolutely no way i would ever make this trade.
I feel like a Voracek for Hemsky trade would be a relatively lateral move. I’d prefer Jake’s upside over Hemsky’s short term help.
So far we haven’t gotten one good year out of Voracek. I wouldn’t exactly bank on him providing anything close to what Hemsky has done in his career.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
“has done in his career”. We dont get what he has done in his career. We get what he may do for the rest of his career. He has concussion problems. I will keep saying that because when you hear “concussion problems” it should let off a big red light. NO Why would you trade a 21 year old for 27 year old? That would be dumb. Especially if he gets hit in the head you may not get anything from him.
Im not done with Voracek unless we get a standout young player in return. Hemsky doesnt cut it. 21, big frame, setup man for Nash and possible Johansen in the future. Keep him. Send Oilers a defensemen for Hemsky.
You have to give talent to get talent. 27 isn’t old at all. 27 is perfect. That’s where most guys are really hitting their stride. His “concussion problems” obviously aren’t that bad. Outside of one year he hasn’t missed a large number of games.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree with your assessment of Hemsky, and I also lack confidence that Voracek ever puts it all together. I think there’s a good chance that 50 points is his ceiling.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Age 21 and you have a good idea of his ceiling. No way.
Just curious, but what is you assessment of Hemsky? And how often do you watch Hemksy?
I never said I had a good idea of his ceiling. I said it wouldn’t surprise me if he never became anything more than he is right now. It wouldn’t surprise me if he put up 80 points next year either. I think it’s important to acknowledge both possibilities. Hemsky will give us 65-75 points a season over the same amount of games for the next five years. His floor and ceiling are similar to Voracek’s in terms of points. The difference is, Hemsky has proved he can make that ceiling, and Voracek hasn’t.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
You think someone with concssion problems will put up 65-75 points for the next five years when he is already 27? No way.
You say “His floor and ceiling are similar to Voracek’s in terms of points”. So if their floor and ceiling are similar, why would you take the one 6 years younger who you dont know yet if he might have a higher ceiling than Hemsky? Makes no sense. Plus no concussion problems or for that matter, injury problems.
why would you take the one 6 years younger who you dont know yet if he might have a higher ceiling than Hemsky?
I don’t think he has a higher ceiling than Hemsky, that much was clear I thought. The reason I would take Hemsky is that Hemsky has reached his ceiling, he’s proven he can do it. Voracek hasn’t. Voracek could easily end up as a guy who scores 55 points a season and never any better.
Please stop repeating “concussion problems.” This time I will link to his career stats page. He has one season that was severely shortened by injury. He’s on pace to play about 65 games this season, and score about that many points.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2849/career;ylt=AmbZYuhSpEHcFvqn2jZ.tFivLYF
Better yet, here is his wikipedia page. Until this year he had never missed a game for a concussion. This year he has had one concussion, his first ever that I could find. Does one concussion mean a guy has a problem? would you trade for sidney crosby? He’s had just as many concussions and will miss more time because of it.
This is your original post about it:
Plus correct me if im wrong but doesnt he have concussion problems.Consider this your correction.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
forgot to link the wiki page. Hemsky’s bad injury was to his shoulder, which seems fine now,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ale%C5%A1_Hemsk%C3%BD
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 20, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
But its impossible to tell if he has a higher ceiling than Hemsky. Even if he doesnt, and he has the same ceiling, and the same floor (like you said), again, why wouldnt you take the younger one who just might have a higher ceiling. YOu get more years for cheap.
Yes, one concussion does mean concussion problems because it mean she has a higher percentage of getting another concussion. “would you trade for sidney crosby?” Thats a totally different situation becuase of talent level.
Hemsky DOES have concussion problems. i said “Plus correct me if im wrong but doesnt he have concussion problems” knowing that I was not wrong. One concussion is considered a concussion problem because it makes him more likely to get injured again. He missed the all star break this year because of a concussion. You say
This year he has had one concussion, his first ever that I could find. Does one concussion mean a guy has a problem?
Yes it does. Given time, i guarantee he has another concussion, but its still the same year.
Other than a concussion, he has had multiple injuries over his career and as he gets older, he will get more and more.
Oilers comment that he is “made of glass”
So a 21 year old who hasnt hit stride for an injury stricken 27 year old who may have his best years behind him for more money. You still have failed to give a reason that we should make the trade and failed to answer my question on how often you have watched/ followed him. All you have said is he showed his ceiling already, which his ceiling came at age 22… one year older than Voracek.
I watch the oilers maybe three or four times a month, I enjoy watching good young players.
You still have failed to give a reason that we should make the trade
No I haven’t. There is a difference between giving a reason you disagree with and not giving a reason at all.
I think you are way overstating his injury troubles. How does Sidney Crosby’s talent level mean he doesn’t have a concussion problem as well?
I also think years of rooting for all the youth in Columbus have messed with your perception of player age. 27 is not old. 27 is perfect.
My reason is simple. Hemsky is a point-per-game player right now, and has been for almost his entire career. We can be reasonably sure he would keep that production up in Columbus. The same can not be said for Voracek. There’s a reason Hemsky was an all-star and Voracek wasn’t. One of them is a better player than the other.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 21, 2011 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
With Crosby the talent level is worth risking with a concussion. With Hemsky it is not.
. There’s a reason Hemsky was an all-star and Voracek wasn’t.
Yes, part of that reason is VORACEK IS ONLY 22!! Holy cow. Yes, 27 is perfect age. but in two years when we would already have to resign him and he would want more money becuase we are Columbus, he would not be as good and Voracek will have already started to hit his prime. We get more good years out of Voracek than we do for Hemksy.
You have said that you think Voracek’s and Hemsky’s floor and ceiling are the same. So if you think they are the same (which who knows, Voracek’s may or may not be higher), then why not take the 22 year old who will have more years remaining to reach the ceiling than Hemsky.
You get the same ceiling or cheaper as well.
So to break it down.
1) Voracek and Hemsky have the same ceiling and the same floor (once again, as you have said)
2) Voracek has had no injury problems as opposed to Hemksy who his own fans call him “made of glass”
3)Voracek will come cheaper for a while.
4) We wont have to worry about resigning a 4.1 plus contract in another year.
5) Voracek is five years younger
Yes Hemsky was an “all star”. But its just to give Edmonton some recognition. Just look who he was chosen over. Briere, Zetterberg, Richards, Carter, etc. Do you really think Hemsky is better than that list? No. All star people just want the teams represented.
Even so, the asking price is huge for Hemsky according to a source. So they would probably want a draft choice as well.
Finally, i went over to the Oilers blog and noticed Matt brought it up and asked what they thought. Only really one response saying that as of right now, it would be a pretty even swap. So right now even swap. But you get 5 more years with no injury history and possibly be able to get more points with Voracek. Which remains to be seen.
Still dont understand why this would make sense. Basically just lose money and games played
Hemsky was brought up by the Edmonton Journal’s beat writer today, and the Dispatch also brought him up in their “potential deadline deals” article today.
Editor for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
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by Matt Wagner on Feb 20, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not opposed to trading to make us better but I don’t want to see a guy like Voracek leave this team only to flourish somewhere else. I wouldn’t trade him now especially not when we aren’t a lock to make the playoffs. As far as Klesla goes I like him, I always have and when he’s healthy, I think he fits in fine. He is still leading the team in plus/minus and yes, I know he’s only played 45 games. I just don’t see him as being the problem on our blueline. I said at the beginning of the season I think our D will be fine, we need more scoring. I just don’t see any deals out there that are all that attractive, I don’t want Howson to sell the farm for a short term run at the playoffs. That’s all I got… Go Jackets!
Personally I laughed more at the nickname, Clitty. I also like the youth movement we have going on, some good young talent with some old veterans to help them along.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Martin Luther King Jr.
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
In his first two seasons, Hemsky put up 30 and 34 points. In his first two, and at the same age, Jake put up 38 and 50. I stick with the younger, cheaper player with more upside and no injury questions.
"If less is more, think how much more MORE is!"
Anyone else watching the Heritage Classic and liking the Flames jerseys but just hate the pants? They look horrible IMO.
I like it, for me the more ridiculous the better.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Martin Luther King Jr.
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 20, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
I like the Khaki and red stripe look.
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Martin Luther King Jr.
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 20, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
It's Annoying that the Habs Lost
But it was pretty obvious from the get-go that they were going to lose. I think it was clear that Price didn’t have his game face (mask) on.
I like the idea, but didn’t like the result. The eyes on top and mouth on bottom seemed like a design forced on the mask. The result reminds me of what Rapala might make for a Jar Jar Binks themed fishing lure. The ears on a human face usually correspond with the distance between the eyes and the mouth. Now we have a Jacques Plante meets Jason meets Algae Eater look that should make this an instant Mask Fail.
Give it up!
I am so sick of reading and hearing about trade rumors with Edmonton! While I am not a complete hater of Howson, lets look at the facts…he got fired from Edmonton for his lack of intelligent moves, look what the team has become bc of his handy work! LAST EVERY YEAR! Someone explain to me why they continue to think acquiring players from Edm. is a good idea? The only reason it comes up over and over is those are guys Howson had initially, his products, his way of trying to make himself not look completely ignorant by hoping they do better elsewhere. Edmonton is TERRIBLE! Hey how is the Moreau acquisition working out? How inconsistent was Raffi? Now onto your love affair with hemsky…He is Edmonton’s Rick Nash, he is plain and simple their best option to get points and goals, explain to me why they would even consider sending him our way! and get rid of Jake?! Come on folks. Jake is not only a tredmendous young talent, he is a great guy in the locker room and off the ice. When called upon the kid put on serious mass in the offseason. knew he needed to get bigger and stronger, and change his game and is doing it! Any idea how difficult it is to go from playing one style your whole life then all of a sudden be expected to put on weight and learn to play a grittier game? Zherdev couldnt and wouldnt do it, Filly couldnt and wouldnt do it, he is… 50 points your second season, on a young inexperienced line at 19-20 years old on a terrible team that quit playing for months to get rid of their coach is pretty impressive. I would take a hard working, driven 21 year old talent over a 27 year old Hemsky any day. Quit searching for answers to our losing ways in Edmonton, SPOILER ALERT: not gonna find any there! Look at our past, the only way we get ANY named talent to this city is by over paying past prime guys. We have nothing to offer to guys to want to play here except to play with rick nash, who gives us MAYBE 2-3 good hard shifts a game…Until we as a team start winning and making playoff runs consistently, and getting fans to fill the seats, dont expect a lot of moves come end of february. If we are gonna move anyone it needs to be huselius, stralman, and filatov. Inconsistent, scared to hit/get hit, turnover machines…Hemsky has mayyyybe 2 more 60 pt seasons in him, heard it here first
he got fired from Edmonton for his lack of intelligent moves, look what the team has become bc of his handy work!
He didn’t get fired, he got hired by us. The team also went from Stanley Cup contender to last place as soon as he left.
I though about reading the rest of it, but this is by far one of the most ignorant rants I’ve ever seen. Mods feel free to delete this, but I don’t feel bad about posting it.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 21, 2011 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
And are the players on the ice that have been losing since he left not the players he brought in to play together? when they were condensers it was bc of the previous GM’s work and the team HE put together…it is clear your love affair with Hemsky has clouded your thought process.
by LeVy-Q on Feb 21, 2011 3:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And are the players on the ice that have been losing since he left not the players he brought in to play together? when they were condensers it was bc of the previous GM’s work and the team HE put together…it is clear your love affair with Hemsky has clouded your thought process.
by LeVy-Q on Feb 21, 2011 3:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Howson was the ASSISTANT GM. He had a voice in the decisions, but then and current GM Kevin Lowe was (and is) the final vote, and made most of the big calls, including the decision to neglect their defense and goaltending in favor of their forwards.
Edmonton doesn’t lose games because guys like Hemsky, Penner, Horcoff, and Cogliano, who Howson was part of the team for drafting or acquiring, are bad players – they lose games because they can’t keep pucks out of the net, and a lot of that blame goes on Lowe and the abysmal group they’ve got on their blue line.
Editor for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
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serious question: do you really think it’s impossible that there are good players on bad teams?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Feb 21, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
D line
Def. think it wouldn’t hurt to add a good, strong Dman who can hit. One thing I noticed in tonight’s game was the lack of aggression when the opposing team came into our zone. We just sort of let him skate it! We need someone to HIT the opponents and stop that sort of thing from happening.
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