The Night After
by Clint Clark on Jul 1, 2010 10:15 PM EDT
42 comments
July 1 has never been a big day in Jackets land, nor will it ever be. Sure we might sign a Rick Nash to a long-term deal, but he was ours to begin with. As a budget team, we will never be in the market for one of the elite free agents. A big market team will frontload the heck out of a deal to make sure that doesn't happen. Tack on a few 500K years on the end of a deal and Columbus is officially out of the mix.
Now while most teams see the greener grass in the UFA and spend their money...players happen to become available.
Snapshot: 2008. Wade Redden is a free agent. WE BID ON HIM. We commit to landing a #1 defender (who has since faded)... of course we our outbidded by the Rangers. They then secure Michal Roszival for a nice 5 million per.
Well sure enough the Rangers realize they are bumping with the salary cap and they have no forwards! Except of course for Gomez and Drury who they spent 16 million a year on. GASP. Suddenly, the once off the market...Fedor Tyutin, becomes tradeable. We know how that turned out.
I prefer to remember the 08-09 version of my Tyutin for the sake of this argument.
What this boiled down to was would you like Redden for 7 years...7 million per. OR Fedor Tyutin for 4 years...3 million per?
Today...given that choice I do not know anyone that would pick Redden.
Now in order to this, we did have to part ways with Nikolai Zherdev and we did have to take a year of Christian Backman, but deals of this sort will become available in the coming days. I guarantee it.
My plan:
1) Vancouver signs Dan Hamhuis, which officially gives them 2 NHL bluelines. They need to move someone and they are looking for Bottom 6 forwards. Do we have any of those? I'd love, love, love to trade for Christian Ehrhoff, but it's just not going to happen. (For giggles I'm offering Filatov, Pahlsson, and a 2nd).
Trade #1
Kevin Bieksa (3.5) for Chris Clark (2.5) + 2nd Round Pick + Cody Goloubef
Logic: Vancouver needs the cap space more than anything. We take on an additional million in salary, but pick up a top 4 defender. Bieksa bring an offensive, aggressiveness that we have never had in our top 4. He would pay dividends on the PP and if partnered with one of our defensive guys could produce good numbers. A high pick and a prospect. Now, Nuck fans you can't try to drop Clark out of this deal. If he's not in the deal, I'm not giving up both of those assets. He's in the deal to balance money (on our end) and provide bottom 6 help. Dan Hinote's addition to the team makes Clark redundant.
A more realistic deal might be Andrew Murray + 3rd, because Vancouver wouldn't be taking as much cash back...but what's the fun in that?
Trade #2
Sheldon Souray (4.5, 4.5) for Mike Commodore (3.8, 3.5, 3.35) + Jared Boll (~1) + Teddy Ruth
Logic: Souray hasn't been happy in a long time in Edmonton and his cap number is actually 5.4 million. He's a huge shot that would instantly make our powerplay feared. He is not as strong defensively as Commodore, but he's certainly a Top 4 defender. Teams love players like Boll, I don't. For the last three season I don't feel like he's grown as a player. He spoiled me with a breakaway goal during his rookie year, a real beauty. It's been the high point of his hockey career for me. I add Teddy Ruth otherwise known as Sergei Fedorov. Ruth is an interesting prospect. I'd probably be more excited about it if we didn't currently have 8 d prospects in about the same realm right now.
In this plan we take on 700K in salary, assuming we would sign Boll for a million.
My lineup
Huselius - Brassard - Nash
Filatov - Vermette - Voracek
Umberger - Pahlson - Dorsett
Moreau - MacKenzie - Calvert
Souray - Bieksa
Hejda - Klesla
Tyutin - Russell
Methot
Other targets to watch.
Pittsburgh currently has 5 nice defenders. The most tradeable to me looks to be either Letang or Goligoski. They would want wingers. They'd most likely target Umberger. If that's the price, I probably pass. If they'd be interested in Filatov + Grunt... I'd put more thought into it. I'd really only move Filatov if it lands us that piece...I'm not sure either of those defensemen are that piece.
Philadelphia would drive Daniel Briere here, but there's no way we are interested. They are bumping the camp and rolling with Boucher and Leighton in net. They'd love to have Mason...but they can't. All we could offer them is salary cap relief. Jeff Carter, Scott Hartnell or Matt Carle would seem to be the odd pieces out if someone moves...and I suspect one of these players does move. The problem with Philly is that we'd have to take on a bunch of salary and I'm not sure we are in position to do that.
Minnesota, I look at their roster and I cannot imagine how they are so close to the cap. I wouldn't touch most of those contract for anything. Two I would look at would be Brent Burns or Cam Barker. I doubt they'd move Barker since they traded for him down the stretch. I can see Burns possibly being in play. They'd want offense. Similar to Pittsburgh, they'd be looking at Umberger...I pass. Filatov...maybe can work something out, but again I don't feel great about it.
As other deals are made and Chicago purges the rest of their roster, more players will become available. July 3rd...I've got a feeling.
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i sure am glad you are not the GM.
Keep Souray away. for his price tag not nearly worth his poor defensive play, age or decrease and offensive ability. sure i would LOVE to dump commodores contract but id rather have commodore over souray.
and do you REALLY think van will let bieksa go for murry and a third round pick? not likely. and i can almost guarentee that they have no interest in Clark or goloubef. so they probably wont deal him
Despite those signings Pitt WILL NOT trade Letang. the is one of their untouchables. gologkowski is possible but Cbus doesnt have anything to offer PItt that he is worth, and losing Gonchar makes it less likely that he gets traded sure they got Martin but he wont help the Power Play as much as gonchar would have (although i do think he is the better all around dman)
Cam Barker won’t be traded. Minn will ask for to much for Burns. ( probably need Voracek brassard or russel) cbus won’t/shouldn’t bite.
if anything cbus should offer up juice (4.75) boll ( 1mil ish.) and a 2nd rnd pick for Kaberle (4.25ish) toronto has said that the price tag for him is a top 6 forward (juice) and toughness (boll) also sending 5.75 away and bringing in 4.25 a savings of about 1.5 million. that gives columbus their true number 1 d man while saving money that is assuming that would be enough to land kaberle which its very possible that it would not be. that would make the team look something like this
Umberger Vermette Nash
Filatov Brassard Voracek
Moreau Phalsson Dorsette
Blunden Murry Clark
Kaberle Commodore
Klesla Tyutin
Russel Hejda
if you are gonna wanna go after Erhoff. i would bet my next pay check that Russel would have to be thrown in any package deal to land him. which Cbus would not do. a unless they find a way to dump salary it would bring in to much salary. B they probably like his potential too much.
still not a playoff team ( 1st rnd at best)
but the best they could do at this point.
Rumor was that Bieksa could be had for a pick. Hence the pick and we send some salary back. They’d most likely want Dorsett.
I’m not convinced that the new PuckRakers is Bieksa for Filatov. There’s nothing that links the two. I’d say it’s much more likely that Filatov is on the table for Ehrhoff.
Re Souray. He’s only make 1 million more than Commodore and signed for one less year. If I could move Commie, I’d do it.
The Cannon -- A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
but commodore is a better hockey player than souray. i would much rather have commodore for an extra year than souray. plus souray has a NTC. do you honestly think he would waive it to come to columbus??? Bieksa may be had for a pick put cbus isn’t going to take on his salary. and Vancouver won’t trade him if they have to bring on salary. if that were the case they wouldn’t shop him. and i know that if they get Souray they won’t go for Bieksa and vise versa.
you totally missed the point of including clark in the Bieksa trade. as was stated in the article, its not like Vancouver necessarily wants him (though they are looking for bottom six help), its that including him is the only way columbus does the deal and vancouver still clears salary.
as far as sending Murray and a 3rd round pick, thats a 3rd/4th line center (which they need) and a decent pick. Remember, they do not have leverage here. they essentially HAVE to ship out a defenseman.
I think Souray is better than you give him credit for, he was certainly better than Commodore last year.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jul 2, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
and thats where you are missing the point. Van is not going to ship them off and take salary. that would defeat the point of shipping them at all… and Vancouver has ALL of the leverage. Columbus needs a defensman much more than Vancouver needs to trade one. and murry is a dime a dozen. 3rd round pick is not gonna land a Chrstian Erhoff or Bieksa. its gonna land an Anderes Ericsson or a brett Lebda.
and no souray was NOT better than commodore last year. souray would have been on pace for around 26 points give or take.had he played all 82 games, and was a MINUS 19. in 37 games commodore was on pace for about 15 points had he played the whole season BUT he was only a minus 9 in 57 games. commodore isn’t the greatest D-man i get that. but he is not the defensive liability that Souray is.
Columbus needs a defensman much more than Vancouver needs to trade one
Stop. This is simply not true. Vancouver has 9 defensemen on NHL contracts. They have cap concerns. They NEED to move a defender.
also, even if we move clarke, they are still shipping salary out, because Bieksa has a bigger contract.
Murray and a third rounder might get you more than you think.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
ok lets say this is true. there are also 28 other teams they could trade him too. and murry and a 3rd rnd pick isnt as much value as you make him out to be. sure he is a solid 4th liner. but those are a dime a dozen. and bieksa would be shipped for more than a third rounder.
Murray and a second would do it.
there are MUCH fewer than 28 teams. most teams don’t have the space/need for a guy like Bieksa.
to respond to the guy below this:
I never said anything about juice. You can’t just “send away” people. they have to have value, and you have to get something in return. Darcy Horticuk has about a 700k cap hit, nobody wants him, and if you made a trade whatever player/pick you brought back would nullify whatever insignificant space shipping him off cleared in the first place.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
Hordy could matbe get a late rounder for a team looking for tioughness.
Draft picks aren’t a cost against…but yeah…it is all about the trading partner’s needs.
I would say nobody would want a tough guy that can’t skate, and barely can play like Boogaard, and he got almost 2 nil!!!!
Hordy is more useful than him.
As for a clock…like everyone else in the NHL, they can go 10% over the Cap until training camp ends…
If worse comes to worse, the Canucks have shown a willingness to bury money in the minors if need be. ( Lukowich made 1.6 in the minors last year )
Its funny. We hockey fans just want them to make the deals right away…but they have all summer to do it.
Maybe…essentially, the Canucks have extra defensemen, but its not a lock that they ahve to trade Juice.
He has a reasonable Cap hit, and definite value to the team staying here.
We have 2.6 mil in Cap space, and need to sign Raymond and a couple other RFAs.
But there are other salaries that can get sent away.
For instance, Darcy Hordichuk…thats a mil. There is a couple others that can be pared away.
Its probably Bieksa, which is why all the rumors, but the Canucks don’t HAVE to trade him…its not like the Sharks and Ehrhoff…when they ahd a clock on them because they wanted Heatley.
There is no clock on the Canucks, and supposedly ten teams have called expressing interest.
Lowballing won’t get it done.
Well, you’re half right. The Dispatch is reporting that we’re going after Bieksa, but the price appears to be Filatov, according to their sources.
Editor for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
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While I tend to be flexible in my beliefs (we need some things, but should be good this year anyway), I am not prone to change on Nash, Brass, Jake and Filatov. These guys should be the true core of the team in the years to come. Particularly with Filatov, we’d be throwing away a universally praised talent.
I know all the return-to-Russia stuff really stung last year, but I don’t want to see Filatov go without a chance to establish himself as a true Blue Jacket. That we’re shopping him around just bothers me, and I would honestly lose a decent amount of faith in Howson if he makes a foolish deal out of this.
I’ve read…total rumor
That we are trying for
Bieksa + Ehrhoff for Filatov + 2nd Round Pick
That comes from a Vancouver fan, and I seriously doubt Vancouver would be interested in that. However it would free up dollars from them to jump back into the UFA market. In a deal like that I’d think Tyutin, Klesla, or Hejda would go the other way too and probably one of our bottom six players. We can’t take on that much salary.
The Cannon -- A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
as far as I’m concerned Filatov should be untouchable unless someone like Spezza is coming our way. You don’t ship out elite Talent for good players. In the NHL, whoever got the best player usually “won” the deal, and in this case, Filatov could easily be the best.
Sure, there’s still a decent chance he never turns into anything, but you have to find out.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jul 2, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Filatov is out of the question, IMO. Like zekebud said, we’d be getting rid of a talent that a lot of us here really want to see succeed IN Columbus, FOR the Blue Jackets.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!
While you may not like to to be true. Filatov is totally in play.
At the draft we tried to deal him for another first rounder. Now we are trying to parlay him into a top 4 defender. I agree that Filatov has talent, but this team needs more skill on the blueline than skill on the wings. And we don’t have the liberty of saying we want both.
If Filatov can land us Christian Ehrhoff…I’m thrilled, I just don’t think the Cancuks would go for that.
If Filatov lands Kevin Bieksa, I’m much less thrilled. I’d much rather send back one of our young defensive prospects over Filatov.
I’m wondering if there’s more behind the scene. More that we know about him than has been let on because we have been eager to use him as our bait.
The Cannon -- A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
I’m going to play Devil’s Advocate here…I’m not sure Calvert and/or Atkinson will pan out, we could really use Filatov to play with Brass and Jake. Your move.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!
by Andrew Tolliver on Jul 2, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I would 100% ship Atkinson the other way. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s an interesting prospect, but last season jumped out of nowhere, and he’s a 5-8 center. It’s possible he succeeds, but not likely in the NHL.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jul 2, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, how about this idea?
Bieksa + Ehrhoff for Columbus’ 2nd in 2011, Teddy Ruth, and Jared Boll?
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One issue I see with this sort of trade is the literal money cost (not even the trade cost). Ehrhoff makes $3.1 million (same as his cap hit), and Bieksa will make $3.5 million (cap hit of $3.75 million). (info via CapGeek.com)
Never mind our cap space – does the team really want to shell out over $6 million to get these guys for just one year? I could see perhaps getting one of them, but both would be a big financial burden.
Assuming we made this deal, I’d figure there would be at least one, if not more deals to free some cap space, but it’s a fair point.
As to if we want to get both, potentially, yes. They provide an upgrade in puck moving and offensive ability and give us time to let John Moore (and potentially David Savard) season in Springfield before making the jump to the NHL, and nothing says they couldn’t be re-signed if things work out well.
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van would not give up bieksa AND erhoff for 2nd a bottem tier prospect and a below average 4th liner. youd be lucky to get Erhoff…
a second round pick is valuable, Teddy Ruth is not “bottom tier,” and you underestimate how much other teams like Jared Boll.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jul 2, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Boller is a great role player. Offensively he hasn’t panned out but he works so hard to do what his team asks of him.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!
by Andrew Tolliver on Jul 2, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
you are right a 2nd round pick is valuable. but not for Bieksa AND erhoff. and Ruth is not the top prospect you guys make him out to be. and im sure teams do like jarrod boll. but as i recall people liked Jody shelly as well. and what did that get them? a 6th rnd pick for the year AFTER they traded him???
I don’t know how many of us are high on Ruth to begin with so I’ll pretend I didn’t read that. I think people like Shelley was because in the dark times of the franchise, he was fun to watch. When the team wasn’t playing up to expectation, Shelley at least made things interesting.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!
by Andrew Tolliver on Jul 2, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying, in general, the team is much more worth watching now than it was when we had Shelley. Boll does his job, fighting or not. He’s shown (although quite limited) flashes of some sort of scoring ability. Thats value that some teams are desperate for.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!
by Andrew Tolliver on Jul 2, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
true but he doesnt do much to help win. does detroit have a jarred boll? or chicago? pitt? ya jared boll might be fun to watch in a fight every once in a while. but that value isn’t going to get two top 4 d-men even if a 2nd round pick is thrown in.
Brian Burke is in love with Jaren Boll. Why I’m not sure. How about we ship him to Toronto with a pick and get Kaberle in return then? Thats value that gets us something that we could really use.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!
by Andrew Tolliver on Jul 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Filatov Poll
What do you guys think of moving Filatov in general (not just for the Vancouver rumors)?
Souray can be had off of waivers. Do the Jackets make another claim from EDM now or wait until he’s on re-entry waivers? There’s your puckmoving D, relieving some of the pressure on Russell…
Re-entry waivers only apply during the season, thus it would not happen now.
If we are interested in Souray (and I’m not sure that we are) we’d have to move salary back the other way, not claim him on waivers. Waivers is simply the Oil trying to get rid of a contract without taking one back.
The Cannon -- A Columbus Blue Jackets Blog
Honestly, if we were interested in him, I think we’d have traded for him already. Howson has shown that he has no problem making deals with the Oilers.
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